Ep 65: Chanukah: Light and Darkness

In this week’s episode, April and Tracie use the Talmudic debate on how to light the Chanukah menorah to reflect on light, darkness, and what this holiday can teach us about navigating the difficult times in our lives. 

Check out our discussion/reflection questions for this episode:  https://joyousjustice.com/blog/jews-talk-racial-justice-ep-65

Find April and Tracie's full bios and submit topic suggestions for the show at www.JewsTalkRacialJustice.com

Learn more about Joyous Justice where April is the founding and fabulous (!) director, and Tracie is a senior partner.: https://joyousjustice.com/

Read more of Tracie’s thoughts at her blog: https://www.bmoreincremental.com/

Support the work our Jewish Black & Native woman-led vision for collective liberation here: https://joyousjustice.com/support-our-work

Learn more about the debate in the Talmud about how to light the candles here: https://www.chabad.org/holidays/chanukah/article_cdo/aid/3144687/jewish/How-to-Change-Your-Life-A-Talmudic-Chanukah-Debate.htm

Learn more about Viktor Frankl here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viktor_Frankl

Learn more about A Wrinkle In Time here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UhZ56rcWwRQ&ab_channel=WaltDisneyStudios

Transcript

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- [Tracie] Hanukkah 5782, April and I are talking about the cumulative effect of all of our lights, and the light of our wins, and the progress. And we also talk about the power of standing in our own power, and recognizing the light within each of us.- [April] This is "Jews Talk Racial Justice" with April and Tracie.- [Tracie A weekly show hosted by April Baskin and Tracie Guy-Decker.- [April] In a complex world, change takes courage.- [Tracie] Whole-hearted relationships can keep us accountable. So, April, Hanukkah is upon us, and-- Yay!- I have a, yeah. I have a little d'var, which I don't, I don't know if this is like a whole episode, but I just wanted to share a little d'var on Hanukkah, something that I'm, well, new to me, that I'm thinking about.- I have a feeling, at the least, it definitely could be the whole episode, or at the very least, I trust that it's a wonderful way to kick off this episode. So, please.(both chuckle)- I appreciate your confidence.- Yes.- So last year we talked about how we have what we need, and how the lesson of the oil that lasted longer than they expected it to was kind of about having what we need. This year, I'm thinking actually about the lights and the custom, which, so there's debate in the Talmud about whether or not we should light one light on the first night, and then move our way up to eight lights, or start with eight, and diminish. And obviously, the house of Hillel won, because it always wins, in this world. And we-- In this dimension of reality.- Yeah, right. In the current world, in the world to come, you know.- Maybe Shammai's.- Maybe it will be Shammai's.- Exactly.- It will be Shammai's day. So our custom is following the house of Hillel, we light one light on the first night, two on the second three, et cetera, et cetera, until the final night of Hanukkah, all eight lights are lit. And one of the things that I was thinking about on that is, especially for those of us in movement work, in social change, I think it's a nice reminder that our work, our wins, ourselves are cumulative. Like the light that we bring into the world is cumulative.'Cause it's really easy to sort of see a flare of something moving in the right direction or, or a win, and then all of the darkness comes back and kind of engulfs, and it feels like you're starting from scratch, or that somehow, the light that you brought into the world was extinguished and Hanukkah and our custom of lighting consecutively is a nice reminder that regardless of whether you can see it, like it happened and it's there and that the effect is cumulative, and if we can hold all of them together, it's actually quite illuminating. So that's my little d'var this year for Hanukkah.- Yay! I love it. And it aligns so beautifully with the little seed of a thought that I have that relates to Hanukkah that I've been thinking about lately, which hopefully, will be inspirational to some and may not be new to others. It wasn't new to me when I reheard it recently, but it was really helpful and it's something that I want to talk about. Ooh, this is so good, I'm so excited.(yells in excitement) Okay. So remind me that I have an idea of a hybrid or like a both situation with Hillel and Shammai, if we can remember that, in case I forget. So the thought that I have similarly aligned with my d'var, which isn't fully formed yet, but the seed of it is I was recently reminded, darkness in and of itself doesn't, actual literal darkness, doesn't have any power in and of itself. Like when a light turns on or a candle is lit, it's not like the light needs to fight to make its way into the space, it just illuminates the space. The darkness is an absence of light. Hold, this is the perfect place to say this, I just want to put on the shelf different, I am not always, as someone who is incredibly racially aware and race conscious, I am not, at times, I feel like darkness is, I don't think that every time darkness and light are spoken about, that it always necessarily has to be tied to whiteness and blackness. I don't think whiteness is like light, anyway.- No, I agree, 'cause I think, there's a very big, in my mind, there's a very big distinction between blackness and darkness.- Mm-hmm.- Right?- And also blackness in and of itself is not an absence of something. In fact, it's actually a higher levels of melanin, which is, ooh, this is so good.- Exactly.- This is actually the kind of nerding out I love.- Or in any kind of-- Right.- Any kind of color theory, right, blackness is actually a multitude of colors and whiteness is absence of color.- Right, so it's actually the reverse. So I just wanna say this because I had, I could feel some of our listeners potentially, you know, recently this has come up around in conversations, maybe it even came up on our podcast. I can't remember. We have the joy of connecting so much, I can't remember where this happened is some people have mentioned that people are looking for another word for saying shadow work. And I actually like the word shadow self, and I actually don't think it's inherently bad. I think it just means a place where, that is unknown to other people or that, even within ourselves, like, so at times, right now, I'm not opposed to people, anyone, especially if they're on a learning journey and they're white, reanalyzing, being mindful about language and shifting their relationship, but I want to say where I am with it right now, and this, and my thinking about it may evolve. Like, when Africa is called the Dark Continent, that I do not like, because to me that implies, not just about melanin, but darkness in a bad way. So there are ways in which to me, darkness can be levied or laid, can be associated with Black people and mean badness, and also darkness to me is actually quite soothing and shadows aren't necessarily a bad thing. They can be, they can't be, they're neutral. So I just wanted to have that little aside, in case, as we're talking about this, to just kind of clarify that, and also specifically what we said, which I really like, which is that in the context of skin color and race, just biologically, that blackness is more like the light we're talking about than about the darkness, which is the absence of light or lighter skin, which is an absence, or a lower amount of melanin. None of any of those are bad. So back on, now that I've clarified that somewhat, now we've clarified that somewhat, I've just been thinking about that at times, and I've been thinking about that as I continue to really work on profound mastery and honing of my own mind, one of the pieces that I'm circling back to, that's a part of this very, both natural and proactive process I've been engaged with over the past year or so, relating to my Kohenet project and my spiritual evolution as being really going beyond simply thinking about what seeds am I watering in my mind, but just being really aware about what's going on in my internal landscape. And one of the things that I've been thinking about is, this also relates to the self-coaching model, which we teach folks in some of our programs and also to reference Viktor Frankl again, and that amazing quote that in any given circumstance, we have a choice about what we think. We may have other things available, but at the very least, we always have a choice about how we choose to think about something and navigate it. And I've been noticing more recently in my life, and I have a little bit of aside for unhealed trauma, because that's kind of its own separate category. But then in day to day life, that basically the darkness can be endless, but all it needs is a bit of light, and it's not that everything changes in that moment. But if I bring a bit of light into a situation, like if I am experiencing some bodily pain, if it's not to the point where it's really just taking over my full mind, if I can engage in my writing practice and start writing about, remembering times when I felt really good, when that part of my body has felt good, or that I look forward to doing these different things when this part of my body feels better, I've started to notice that it actually helps alleviate suffering, not all the time, but much, much of the time. And it's astounding to me. So I just wanna offer this up for folks to think about, and then I wanna add the piece again about Hillel and Shammai, that one invitation among the many, and as we know, I love that so much about our holidays is there's so much opportunity for different interpretations and meaning is that both around lighting the menorah, and a number of us know and appreciate the magic from you know, going, aligning with the house of Hillel. So if we go with that tradition of lighting each of the candles in order, I think what I would add to it, what you said, Tracie, is that in a moment of darkness, in an experience we have in our mind, in an exchange we're having that just as we can light a single match, just flick it, like add some friction and put a little bit of effort in and light appears and brings darkness to a space, that we have that capacity in our work and in our own mind. Like if there's darkness happening, if there are dynamics happening, or we're sad about something, like, both to Tracie's point about cumulative, and also just to notice that it isn't necessarily the solution, but in a dark room, if you're hypothetically in a dark room while you're lighting the candles for effect, just simply lighting one match before you even light the candle shifts the whole dynamic. You go from largely not being able to be aware of your surroundings, if you're a seeing person, to being able to see so much more. And over the course of these days, so in a different sort of way around accumulation, that, we're in a world, especially around race and racism, but around a range of different issues, where there are enormously challenging, adaptive dilemmas that we're navigating. And like climate change is a good example, too, which also relates to race and racism. Nearly everything does. Isn't that convenient for us? Is that people get overwhelmed by the enormity, and I think one thing that Hanukkah can show us is that our collective light is powerful and it's not the solution in and of itself, but all we can do is take one step at a time, and with each additional light, we get more illumination and more insight and more things that we're able to see and incorporate, and what I would say, the other piece that I wanted to mention about the house of Shammai, shoutout to Shammai, I feel like a number, not all, but a number of progressive and powerful Jewish leaders of color often feel a sense of solidarity with Shammai, and a number of even practice the ritual of working down, and what's coming to mind for me right now about that way of thinking about that is that I think one day, probably when I have kids and I'm doing, and I'm lighting Hanukkah Hanukkiahs, Hannukiot, is that I think menorahs, that's the Hebrew for menorahs, is I think ideally I might want to have two menorahs and do both practices, one to allow us to see that we can continue to build and grow in our light and our power, just with little steps at a time, and that each one combined is larger, the cumulative effect is larger than each individual piece, and also, with Shammai, there's so many things, but what comes to mind to me is a reminder about different components of impermanence in our lives and to savor what we have while we have it, and that change occurs, and that hypothetically, on the other side, we're still lighting another match, but that we need to be open to the process of entropy, to the process of change and shift that is just central to the human experience.- You know, I think something that's interesting about the symbolism of Shammai's way and what you're kind of leaning into is from the original story, right, it wasn't that the light went out after eight days. It was that the supply chain got fixed, right? (chuckles) The oil was, they got more oil. And so there's something, I think, in the Shammai method that speaks to our being able to stand on our own, like about weaning off the support from something else-- I love that so much.- Someone else. I think that, yeah.- Folks, just pretend that I said that. That's so much better. Sorry.(Tracie laughs) I mean, I also like what I said about oh, but about resilience, ooh, this is so good. Ooh, please, sorry, keep going.- And about like, well, I'm thinking about, you know, as a parent, I'm thinking about, you know, like my daughter likes me to stay with her while she falls asleep and thinking about how to wean her off of that, like sort of Shammai's method, that's what I was thinking about when you were talking about that, as sort of a, you know, when you're learning to ride a bike, and you get closer and closer to doing it without the training wheels without actually just, cold turkey or something. I don't know. There's something about the, again, the power of incremental change, but for something in a different-- Oh, that's so good.- A different framing. You know, the other thing that is coming up for me, and I can't remember where I heard this originally, so whoever said it to me first, I'm sorry. It might've been Rabbi Sachs-Kohen.- Shoutout to you, whoever you are, wherever you are.- Yeah, whoever you, you obviously had an effect on me. So there's a story, though, about like being afraid of the dark basement and being told like, well, here's a stick go down and beat it, beat the darkness.- Right?- Or like-- Yep.- Yell at it, go down and yell at it, and obviously, these things don't have any effect on the darkness, and then you're given the candle. So there's something else, there's something, too, about the kind of right, the adaptive solution to the adaptive problem, something about sort of finding the right mechanism or tool for what it is that you're facing.- Yeah, okay, so I think to me like what this is, thank you. Ooh, I love our partnership. God, this is so good! To me, part of it is also saying that the light and the power is in us. Like to me, one of the takeaways from this is that the power is in us, and that it's just whether you're doing it Hillel style, that it's just a little bit of effort from our part to ignite a flame. And that that shifts things or with Shammai, of starting with all of that light and engaging in a practice of noticing more and more each day incrementally, as you said, that we are B'tzelem Elohim, and that even if there's literal darkness, that divine spark is in each of us and can remain. What I wanna say about what you said about the story of the unknown, wonderful person, potentially, Rabbi Sachs-Kohen, is, but that is part of my point that I've been actively thinking about and noticing is that in the scenario where one goes downstairs to the basement, there is a world in which they hit the darkness and there they try, they come down with a stick or something of the like, and this also came up, which I really loved, and I want to rewatch it. It shows on airplanes,"A Wrinkle in Time," the end of "A Wrinkle in Time," I really find it quite profound and I love it a lot, that the darkness is just absence, but it's also endless. So one could go down, and when I get into that place of fear, literally, if I engage the fear, it just feeds. Like, I'll be like, oh, this thing and, oh, this thing. And it can just, even though there's actually, there may be nothing there, there may be, in fact, nothing there, and that all it takes is either turning on a switch, right, and there's no battle. I think this, what I'm trying to say is that I am a person who believes that there is good in this world, and there are places where there's an absence of good or connection to that goodness. I do not believe in a good/bad binary. I do not believe that there are evil forces in this world. I think certain things can manifest as evil if someone has experienced suffering because someone or something is not in active relationship with the light and that that thing can be an empty, like an abyss, it can just be endless. But I don't think there's some force at the bottom of that. I think it's actually neutral, and so, when you proverbially light a candle or grab something and pull, you can start to move. And the only thing, which can be a very real thing, that one, at times needs to work against is momentum that they've established, right? So if I choose to let something scare me and I get into that, I had this the other day before I flew home to California, and there were different things happening, and I was thinking about the travel and traveling in the pandemic and all of these things and getting more and more and more upset about it. And I'd been up late, later than I wanted, and so I wasn't able to go to bed early,

before I had to catch a 4: 19:06

00 AM flight

or like a flight leaving at 9: 19:07

00 AM, and that I needed to get up at 4:00 AM for, and eventually I was finally able to catch myself and just notice, this is just a bottomless pit of stress. And I can just allow this to build, and also, probably what helped is that I think, as Tracie and I spoke about offline, I think some of it was just part of my grief and sorrow around a health situation a family member is going through that was getting projected into my anxiety about travel. It was manifesting as a travel anxiety. But once I was able to breathe and just notice, this is actually benign, and I can actually light a candle in this scenario in my mind and remember that all is well, and right now I'm in bed, in my room, my partner is here, he loves me. We have a plan to get up tomorrow. He's really reliable. Like I just started remembering like, this is okay. I will get some sleep, not as much as I want. You know, like, and so, I'm recognizing that this is not necessarily the typical thing we discuss, but I think, in case it happens to resonate with anyone, that this can be helpful in different ways, if we can practice remembering this perspective, if it resonates with you, that at times, when there is distress, it's an absence of support. It's an absence of light, it's a lapse and an absence of clarity, and those are different things that we can reach for, It's an absence of something, not necessarily the presence of evil. And I think that's true with regard to racism. I think, as we know, that racism ties into trauma and fear, I think fear is quite powerful, but I don't think it's evil. I just think it's not moving in the direction toward the light. And so whether you practice based upon the house of Hillel or Shammai, or potentially both, let us know if you do both, that would be cool to know, I love this idea about how we can remember, almost as if, as we're lighting the candles and the match, even though the match is doing the work, is almost as if that's the light within us, we're just harnessing a little bit to light that candle. And that it's that action that we take that brings about that light, or if we diminish from eight down to seven, that we can still hold that power and resilience and purpose within ourselves in the presence of light that mirrors the light within ourselves, as well as in in the presence of darkness, where it can be even more important to anchor in any number of things that are relevant to each of us, whether it's our sense of connection with the divine or our purpose in this work. Tracie, anything else you wanna add?- I have "This Little Light of Mine" running through my head.- Aw.(snapping fingers) Yay! Happy Hanukkah, I don't think we said that. Chag Sameach, Happy Hanukkah, folks. (laughs)- Happy Hanukkah.- [April] Thanks for tuning in. Our show's theme music was composed by Elliot Hammer. You can find this track and other beats on Instagram @ElliotHammer. If this episode resonated with you, please share it and subscribe. To join the conversation, visit jewstalkracialjustice.com, where you can send us a question or a suggestion, access our show notes and learn more about our team. Take care until next time, and stay humble and keep going.