The Joyous Justice Podcast

Ep 54: Yom Kippur and the Importance of Process

April Baskin and Tracie Guy-Decker Episode 54

In this week’s episode, as we mark Yom Kippur, April and Tracie discuss the big concepts and ideas that can frame Yom Kippur and give some practical tips for how to work through our collective and individual yearly accounting of our souls by finding the joy in the process. 

Check out our discussion/reflection questions for this episode:  www.joyousjustice.com/blog/jews-talk-racial-justice-ep-54

Find April and Tracie's full bios and submit topic suggestions for the show at www.JewsTalkRacialJustice.com

Learn more about Joyous Justice where April is the founding and fabulous (!) director, and Tracie is a senior partner.: https://joyousjustice.com/

Read more of Tracie's thoughts at her blog, bmoreincremental.com

Learn more about Yom Kippur and its meaning here: https://www.myjewishlearning.com/article/yom-kippur-101/

Listen to last week’s episode here: www.joyousjustice.com/blog/jews-talk-racial-justice-ep-53

Reflect on the Al Chet here: https://www.sefaria.org/sheets/255454?lang=bi

Learn more about the “4 I’s of Oppression (Love, Change, Power, etc)”:  https://www.grcc.edu/sites/default/files/docs/diversity/the_four_is_of_oppression.pdf

Read more about Alan Morinis and the book Everyday Holiness here: https://mussarinstitute.org/books-by-alan-morinis-faculty/

Learn more about Ronnie Coleman here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ronnie_Coleman

Learn more about Rabbi Yosef Yozel Horwitz, the Alter of Novardok here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yosef_Yozel_Horwitz

Watch Verna Myers’s TedTalk here:  https://www.ted.com/talks/verna_myers_how_to_overcome_our_biases_walk_boldly_toward_them

Check out the book No Sweat by Michelle Segar here: https://michellesegar.com/book/

Learn more about Wolof here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wolof_language

Check out Atomic Habits by James Clear here: https://jamesclear.com/atomic-habits

- [Narrator] It's Yom Kippur 5782. We're thinking about specific frameworks, mindsets and strategies that help us work toward change.- [Narrator] This is Jews Talk Racial Justice with April and Tracie.- [Narrator] A weekly show hosted by April Baskin and Tracie Guy-Decker.- [Narrator] In a complex world change takes courage.- [Narrator] Wholehearted relationships can keep us accountable.- It's Yom Kippur, Tracie, the day of atonement.- Yeah, yeah.- Heneinu, here we are, Yom Kippur day. This is such an important day in our tradition. It's common for those who don't otherwise observe to still show up spiritually, whether in shul or within a congregation, or personally in their own lives to take note and observe Yom Kippur in any number of ways. Traditionally, Jews are instructed to fast on Yom Kippur and a number of Jews all around the world do that. And a number of Jews don't for health reasons, for psychological reasons, for things they're balancing around work or family commitments and needing sustenance to get through the day, whether or not they're observing the holiday traditionally, otherwise or not. So we just wanna kick off by saying that we hope this sacred holy day is a meaningful one for you, and that can look like a lot of different things and we're here for that.- For sure, yeah.- So we have some wonderful, lovely assortment of some ideas and concepts and resources or techniques that we'd like to share with you this Yom Kippur day. Building a bit on our recent episodes for Rosh Hashanah and specifically Yom Kippur, the pre-episode that we did last week. So if you didn't get a chance to listen to that one, you don't have to to get the most of this, but it likely would be meaningful because in that episode, we give sort of a d'var. And related in slightly different ways, this episode is going to be more tachlis. It's going to have some wonderful concepts. And also also we're going, Tracie and I are going to be thinking about and sharing with you how to think about approaching some of these big, heavy ideas and important concepts in more practical terms. Because Tracie, you can speak for yourself, but I know the magnitude of the spiritual significance of Yom Kippur at times for me is manageable, but can feel a bit overwhelming. Like I manage it but at times I need to, so we wanted to in partnership with you provide some additional ways of managing the cheshbon ha'nefesh, the spiritual accounting that we are each doing and that our community is doing collectively around a range of important issues.- Yeah, yeah. I think April, you just mentioned that we're each doing it individually and we're also doing it collectively. And that's one of the things that I'm focusing on about Yom Kippor this year is the fact that the holiday has something to teach us, I think about the fact that it is a both/and. In so many things in life, there is work that each of us has to do individually, but there's also work that we have to do together. And I think that the liturgy and the tradition around Yom Kippur kind of holds both of those things, right? Each of us is individually doing whatever version of fasting works for us, whether it's about food or about social media, like whatever the fast is that works for you.- Nice idea.- And then, it's as a collective, it's as a group that we say the Al Chet, that we say the litany of things we didn't get right in the past year and hope to improve in the future. And we say those things all together. We say the full Al Chet together, whether or not we ourselves, like whether or not I feel as though I have lied, I say that part of the Al Chet because I know that we have a collective, a collective responsibility. And I am a part of this community and this community has had lying within it.- Say it Tracie. We're in this together.- I find that actually really, it's a source of a little bit of cognitive dissonance for American individualism, which we are really weaned on in this country, but also a source of comfort to kind of counter that and, you know, remind us that this, it is in fact, a collective problem and therefore requires a collective solution, whatever it is, and in yours and my conversation, it is often, you know, racism and oppression, but the it of the problem is it can be anything. You know, there's so much that is in fact collective problems that require collective solutions.- So, there's a few different pieces that, just different, not necessarily the same, but slightly different insights or frameworks that we think, hopefully at least one of them, if the juicy nuggets we've already shared haven't already been useful, but that was just the lead-in. Hopefully some or all of these will be helpful to you, and we are excited to share them. Tracy, I loved what you shared about what you learned about the three relationships. Did you wanna, I think that might be a nice framing to start us off, to give people a sense of how they want to calibrate processing the material today.- Yeah, sure. So one of my, friend who I consider a teacher really instilled in me the idea that there are three primary relationships in Judaism are from a person to themself, a person to other people and a person to God. Those are the three primary relationships that Judaism, the three primary relationships of Judaism, that Judaism cares about, hence manages.- May I repeat that back. So just to repeat that back in slightly different language in case folks missed it. So it's us as individuals and our connection to the divine, our connection to each other, with other humans and our connection with ourselves, with ourselves.- Yeah exactly, exactly. And all three require tending, all three relationships.- They do require tending. And I find in my work, you know, Tracie, you notice that this model is similar to another model that we use in our work.- Right, of the so-called four I's. So the four I's of oppression from--- Love and Change.- Oppression, love and change, all four follow the same I's. So from individual or internalized, you wanna interject.- Yeah, I was just thinking also in power, lots of things. You often talk about as the four levels of oppression, but I also think it's the four levels of change, of love, of power, all those things, sorry, please continue Tracie.- So those four levels are individual or internalized, interpersonal, institutional and ideological. And so, yeah I was just noting that the three relationships I named, the individual, interpersonal, obviously, and then I think the individual, or the person to God, that relationship, depending on exactly how you conceive of God really could, it certainly could cover the ideological and I think potentially institutional as well. Though I'm still working that out, how that relationship precisely maps. It's not a one-to-one map obviously, since there were three relationships and four I's, but I do think there's some insight to be gained there.- There's so many possibilities as I think about my understanding and conception, which is somewhat fluid, but also pretty clear of the divine. It really resonates the linking of the ideological, that divine relationship, but also too, as you were talking just now, I have this also, this idea of I don't quite, I suppose institutional, I could see how that might be a thing, but also too the ways in which the Is of individual and internalized and interpersonal could also be other expressions of the relationship with the divine, depending on how one, right? Because if I believe that I am, that b'tzelem Elohim, if I'm made in the image of the divine and if I believe since I, which I have since I was a kid, which is part of why a friend eventually turned me on to some Buddhism, because he was like, that's kind of Buddhist, April. You know, as I was davenning in synagogues because I was praying in synagogue and thinking through the translation or reading the translation of the prayers. For me, I was like, if God is in everywhere, in everything, then that means that the person next to me is holy and sacred and that I am holy and sacred. Honestly, the carpet has its own relative value and like you know, that this planet, you know, so anyway, but just in case someone else enjoys these sorts of ruminations.- You know what? Is coming up for me too, is the fact that Yom Kippur is holding all of those. It holds all three of the relationships that my teacher taught about, but it's also holding, holding all four of the I's, because I do think that, as I just talked about the communal Al Chet right, the Al Chet certainly speaks to institutional--- Accountability, yeah that resonates for me.- Yeah, and so, and the way that, I mean the way that we say on Yom Kippur, you know, for sins against God, the day of atonement atones, but for sins between one person and their neighbor, the day of atonement does not atone until they have made peace with one another. That's to me, very clearly kind of calling out those two relationships, God and other people, but out loud on the day of atonement. And then obviously the individual, as we talked about with the fasting and the internal work. And I guess since we said we wanted to make this tachlis brass tacks, the thing I wanna name is that all of the work is necessary and to the good, and so I think some people, it's necessary and to the good and it is not sufficient, right? So if right now the work that you are able to do is on yourself, good, do it, right? and if, and in the future, you will be called to do the work of the interpersonal or the institutional or the ideological, and they all work together. And I think sometimes both with thinking about, you know, sort of changing the way we show up, whether it's around race or around, you know, yelling at our kids or being more--- Anything.- Or being more patient as you drive or eating healthier or working out more, whatever it is around the things we wanna change about ourselves, it's easy to sort of get overwhelmed and feel like why, I can't do it all, and so I'm not gonna do anything at all.- Or I can't do it all or to fixate on the place where we have longing, the relationship where we want to do the work, whether it's interpersonally with someone or our relationship with the divine or ourselves. And so either get fixated on the whole or get fixated in one of the relationships where there's a tremendous amount of dissonance that we haven't been able yet to on our own or times, even with some help, figure out how to resolve. And that that also can be overwhelming. And therefore we back away, and maybe you don't notice that one of those other relationships might actually bring us peace and might actually be a portal through which in time we can access the stuff that's more difficult.- Right, and so, one of the things that, this jives with the, with wisdom I've learned from you April, and we talked about it a little bit before we hit record is listeners, regular listeners will know, I've recently been talking about the book Everyday Holiness by Alan Morinis. And one of the things that I read in his conclusion that really jives with wisdom I've learned from you April, is that when we're looking to make a change, looking to sort of, making the goal to stop doing the thing that we think is negative is less effective than making a goal to do more of the thing that sort of counterbalances that. So within the field of of Musar, we're saying, if you want to be less angry, you don't focus on being less angry. You focus on being more patient. And I, that really jives with some of what I've learned from you April around what you focus on grows, and sort of, what is it you say? What you resist persists, I think that's the phrase you use.- Not mine, I don't know who it's originally attributed to.- Well, I learned it from you. So I will credit you.- Awesome There's something I think very wise in that I, for those listening on Yom Kippur and thinking about trying to do better, to be better, that's something I wanna invite. Like, what is the opportunity of that, of what you focus on grows, around whatever it is that you're working on? Is it, you know, if you're working to, for instance, if you're working to counter unconscious bias, right. Verna Myers's Ted talk says that we can reprogram ourselves. So, you know, she has, at the end of her Ted talk, she has all of these, this slideshow running of black men, right? Strong, powerful black men to reprogram folks' brains who might have unconscious bias against. And I think very practically, those are the kinds of things that what you focus on grows can help lead to, or the idea of strengthening the, it's not, I don't wanna call it an opposite, but, the other end--- That's what it kind of is, it's what you want. Do you mind if I interject here a little bit?- Please, do, please do.- I'm hearing some potential questions that folks have, right? Because hypothetically you could focus on not being angry, but what I've learned from some of the wonderful, experienced spiritual teachers with whom I've worked is that when you focus on not the, not doesn't count so much, it's about that thing, that whatever you're focusing on, whether it's positive or negative will grow. That your attention contributes to its growth and its persistence. And so if there's something that you would like to dissipate in your life, it's helpful to think about how does this clarify what I want, right? So if you're wanting to decrease bias, what do I want instead? I want to have relationships where I'm able to more effectively connect with our shared humanity, right? Like, and that can be tricky. Like, as I was saying that it was hard for me to not say, you know, and not have bias, right? But figuring out whatever those, whatever that positive thing is that you're putting your attention on and allowing that to grow and develop and look for resources and supports and all sorts of things that can help you develop that, that rather so for me, for instance, earlier this year I was struggling with some different health issues and it became helpful for me to, in order to really effectively address that, to, I found a book that had that name and the title, but they gave instructions around what to eat to help me reduce the infection and to help bring more health into my body, right? That I've focused on vitality. What are the foods right now that don't bring me harm, that just nourish my body, that reduce inflammation, that bring me back to stasis and peace.- Thank you, that's really helpful.- Yeah, so thank you for sharing that Tracie, and I hope this is resonant for some, and if it's not for you, what I would say is that I can't necessarily change your mind, but that I've found that this is actually really quite potent and trajectory and professionally like just it's trajectory shifting. It's a trajectory shifting adjustment, where when we focus on the thing that we want to build momentum, that as we're focusing on it more and more, that thing is building momentum and makes something that we don't want less and less relevant. An additional idea that I wanted to share with y'all, that's something that I recently got some experience in practicing, and I will share an example that's not as hefty as some of the different spiritual considerations you, or frankly, I am navigating, but I think it's helpful for the purposes of sharing it, which is I was describing a strategy that I was using to help me learn Wolof, the most commonly spoken indigenous language here in Senegal, where I live. And I've been struggling a bit, I've struggled in a number of ways because I have different learning differences. But recently some of the challenges I've had around those learning differences has dissipated, which is great. But, and I know what I need to do, which I've come to realize is study daily. And I realized that it's not enough to study 15 minutes daily, but then I need to study an hour. And I've been feeling very daunted about needing to learn a whole language, and that's been shutting me down. And I recently spoke about this with Tracie and continue to think and chew on it. And here's the summary that after sharing this with my mom, she was basically like, so focusing on the process rather than the outcome. And I was like, yes, that is a very concise version of what I just said. And so I wanted to invite y'all to think about this, and I feel like it's another slice or it's building upon what we just spoke about, but this idea that at times, if the outcome, if there's too much dissonance for you, because at times I'm actually a huge fan of the power of visioning and then being really clear about where you're going and that propelling you forward. And so if that works for you around this area of cheshbon ha'nefesh you're working on, great. If you're like, I am going to be such a calm, patient parent, and my kids are going to thrive for it. And you can live into that and feel that and it feels real to you, great. Or if you're like, I'm really going to become a much more accountable, courageous and humble anti-racist ally, activist, co-conspirator and it feels believable to you, great. But if you're like me and me saying, in a year from now, I'm going to be fluent in Wolof makes me laugh. Like, no idea how that's gonna happen, and there's a lot of dissonance there and doubt and, oh, I know, I know in my heart of hearts, as you may know around your thing, or maybe not, that ultimately over a number of, even if it's years, I will become proficient in this language because it's important to me. What has been helpful for me is to focus more on the process and focus on it in a way that feels light and joyful and fun and allows me to be present. And so with exercise a few years ago, based upon different spiritual principles I was learning, I had this idea and I recently read this book called No Sweat, that essentially talked about this in fancy, scientific language. And I was like, this is awesome, I figured this out a few years ago, but as I started exercising, I found that I, again, got overwhelmed by thinking about where I wanted to be versus where I was and the cognitive dissonance. And so I decided, you know what? I'm going to get a Pandora subscription, and that wasn't actually the decision, but I ended up doing that for this, but I was like, you know what? I'm gonna shift my focus, and I'm going to focus on smiling because as I learned in high school, when I did cheerleading for a bit, and I was messing, I couldn't remember some of the choreography while we were performing a routine, a cheer and Rachel Delgado, shout out to Rachel Delgado, one of the captains of the cheer team said, April, just smile and just beam happiness and try to remember the steps. And so I thought, okay, I'll just, I'll try it. And I actually found that by smiling, I relaxed more and I got happy and my brain was actually able to access the choreography more because I was just more relaxed. And I noticed like, oh right, this is releasing happy chemicals. I feel better, so even if I am messing up, at least I'm happy, right? And so I decided while I was exercising from that lesson that I learned years ago, I'm just going to smile. I'm going to practice smiling while I exercise. So I'm getting my endorphins going and I'm also smiling through these happy chemicals and I'm going to breathe, I'm going to breathe deeply. I make sure I'm nourishing myself and focus on fun, focus on fun, focus on having fun, listening to music that I enjoy, listening to motivational recordings that really give me inspiration, listening to the lessons from teachers. And I did this and it helps so much because I was focused less on the specific weight amounts and the reps or the parts of my body I was exercising. And I found that when I focused more on just showing up and breathing and smiling and having fun, that those things took care of themselves. And eventually rather than feeling like shoulds, they became a desire like, oh, let me use the rower now,'cause I want to get full body exercise now that I've walked on the treadmill or whatever. And now I wanna start, I wanna find the beginner ab workout. And I found that by going based upon desire, it was helpful. So with Wolof, I realized I can apply that here too, if that's something that feels hard. I studied today for 30 minutes, not the full hour, but that's a good step in the right direction. And I did it by focusing on just showing up to it and finding what's fun about it. Noticing how the Wolof sounds in my mouth. Doing things that help to keep me, and in your case, you in the present moment. So this may not work for all the things you're looking to encounter, but if there's a skill you're looking to build, and in some ways they can, hypothetically, if you are following the recommendation that Tracie and I gave earlier in this episode around focusing what we want to grow. So finding that thing and just showing up on a regular basis at times daily or weekly, depending upon what that thing is. If it's with your kids, are there ways and working with your kids, or if it's with a person of color on your staff where you can start to notice, what do you enjoy about this? And what is the skill you want to learn? You practice it in ways that make it pleasant and enjoyable. Something that you actually look forward to each day, which neurologically helps us maintain these habits and skills we're building around becoming the people we know we have the capacity to be with time and love and patience and to show up, right? And what I realized ultimately is that if I focus more on the process, the outcome will be inevitable. And basically I did all of this relearning again around a principle that I can't remember if it was in the book, Atomic Habits or a different habit forming book that I read and the author discussed and maybe I can find it, and then we can put it in the, was it Essentials? I think it was maybe Atomic Habits. One of the things that James Clear talks about in Atomic Habits is that systems are better than goals. That when we set up a system, because once we achieve a goal, we can lose it. But if we build in habits or patterns and find ways of reinforcing it by noticing, I feel more at peace when I do this thing, or it makes me happy, I think I've made my point.- Yeah, I think the things that are coming up for me are two phrases to kind of cement this in.- Great.- One from our coach. I think we've talked about it on this show before, that April and I did a productivity class together and our coach quotes, Ronnie Coleman, the bodybuilder who says everybody wants to be a bodybuilder, everybody wants a body like this, but nobody wants to lift no heavy-ass weights, right? Which in the Jewish world, I think I said this a couple episodes again from the The Alter of Novardok, who said, people wanna change overnight and they want a good night's sleep that night too. And I think that's, both of those are saying the same thing, which is that, you know, consistency and systems are what gets you there. I think, I love that, I also read Atomic Habits actually before we met. So that is resonating for me. But the thing that I really love about that is that the cognitive dissonance that you were talking about happens when we see the goal and we see where we are and there's such a big gap there that there's this cognitive dissonance that just feels overwhelming. And so if, instead, I mean that's what James clear talks about. Instead of thinking, like I want to lose 20 pounds or I wanna be able to bench 120 pounds, whatever it is, you think of yourself as I'm the kind of person who makes healthy choices about food. I'm the kind of person who doesn't miss a workout. Like, James Clear talks about it that way, which is another way to kind of articulate the process.- Process oriented attention.- Articulate the process, the process is better than the goal.- Because that is our control, right? That's part of it too. That's something that we absolutely can know and show up for and know that if we keep doing this, then we will get there. And I wanted to add to what you said in your summary of focusing more on process, but doing it with love and gentleness or play and silliness or whatever the words, or peace, right? So if like you're lifting those heavy-ass weights, right, how do you start lifting those heavy-ass weights in a way that brings you joy? Are you listening to something? Are you enjoying a good smoothie? Are you, how are you incorporating things either during or around it that make it pleasurable for us, so that ideally we do get to that destination we want, but we didn't do it through suffering, right. Because that is the way to do it. But honestly, it's an old way.- And it's not very effective.- And you know, and like my dad was very effective at it. You know, short-term sacrifice for long-term gain and he's a loving, sweet guy, but that doesn't work so well for me. But I found that short term mindfulness and creating fun or meaning, or maybe it's what you're working on is meaningful, that it feels purposeful. And it's a purposeful moment in your day when someone is doing something and you could use an old pattern and you are engaging in purpose and spirituality in that moment and cultivating a different middah, a different spiritual characteristic or value, right? So feel free to both take what I'm saying literally, and also stretch it to make it work for what you're seeking to enhance or develop or cultivate in your beautiful, precious life. If what we've said has really resonated, and you've been in a process and building up something or sort of like I have where I was like, this is not a good path. I need to take time and shift my schedule and get more sleep and begin moving my body more, right? And so, as I think about taking on certain things right now, I have some momentum. And if what you've processed today in this podcast or beyond it, or a combination of things has inspired you, feel free to start this process. But for you, like with Wolof with me, it might not be an hour a day. It might, give yourself some ramp up time and start planning. And it's okay if on this Yom Kippur you start developing a plan. Whether you're diving into action because you have that momentum or you don't need it, or you don't have the momentum and it's gonna take some momentum, take that time. It's all good.- This is a lot April. I think I'm gonna suggest that we wrap up.- I think so, too.- Yeah, so I will wish you, dear listener, a meaningful fast, whatever fasting looks like for you today. And I look forward to what wonderful things we will do together in 5782. And I will toss it over to you April to take us out.- So for those who are fasting, I wish you an easy fast. For those who may or may not be fasting, but are engaging in rigorous cheshbon ha'nefesh as our theology teaches us, as The Book of Life is about to be closed, we wish you gevurah, if I can talk, gevurah, much strength and ahava, love for yourself and our beautiful, aching, evolving world.- Amen.- [April] Thanks for tuning in. Our show's theme music was composed by Elliot Hammer. You can find this track and other beats on Instagram at Elliot Hammer. If this episode resonated with you, please share it and subscribe. To join the conversation, visit JewsTalkRacialJustice.com, where you can send us a question or suggestion, access our show notes and learn more about our team. Take care until next time and stay humble and keep going.