Ep 25: On Purim, Joy, and Liberation

April and Tracie think about some of the lessons of Purim: hidden identities, the power of 'no,' the power of being in the right place, the importance of joy, and the links between joy and liberation.

Find April and Tracie's full bios and submit topic suggestions for the show at www.JewsTalkRacialJustice.com

Learn more about Joyous Justice where April is the founding and fabulous (!) director and Tracie is a senior partner: https://joyousjustice.com/
Read more of Tracie's thoughts at bmoreincremental.com

Resources and notes:
In the Talmud, Megillah 7b:7, it says "Rava said: A person is obligated to become intoxicated with wine on Purim until he is so intoxicated that he does not know how to distinguish between cursed is Haman and blessed is Mordecai." (William Davidson English edition, courtesy sefaria.org)

Peninei Halakhah, Zemanim Chapter 14:1: "When Adar arrives, joy increases."

Arthur Waskow's Seasons of Our Joy.

Transcript

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- [Tracie] In honor of Purim, we think about what Esther and company have to teach us about liberation, joy and showing up as our full selves.- [April] This is Jews Talk Racial Justice with April and Tracie.- [Tracie] A weekly show hosted by April Baskin and Tracie Guy-Decker.- [April] In a complex world, change takes courage.- [Tracie] Wholehearted relationships can keep us accountable.- Hi, Tracie.- Hey April, it's great to see you.- It's good to see you too. So, this week we have Purim.- Yay.- Purim. Woo-hoo.- Like I need a grogger or something- I know, exactly.(April quacks) I don't have one. That's my grogger impression.(April quacks)- Nice. Right.- I know. It sounds more like a duck that's like having indigestion or something.(Tracie laughs).- But so, you know, in the Talmud, we read that when Adar enters that joy increases- Right. The month of Adar in which Purim is situated.- Yay. Thank you for explaining that. Yes, exactly. It's the Jewish lunar month of Adar. And so I love this as someone who is really into joy. I also like to think when justice enters, joy increases.- Nice.- Hence Joyous Justice. And you know, I mean, so to me I think there's some really interesting things to unpack here. This is obviously very on-brand for us in terms of joy and in some ways to me it's on-brand and other ways it's not. Right?- Yeah. So I Just, there's a lot that we could unpack here.- I feel like we should... Sorry.- No, go ahead.- No, I interrupted you.- No, no. Go ahead.- I feel like we should start with just the basic story that we are kind of commemorating with Purim. Like the basic story of Esther and Mordecai for those who are listening who maybe don't have that right on the tip of their brains. So nutshell? Nutshell, right?- Nutshell.- In the time of King Ahasuerus, there was through a, a bizarre sort of encounter with the existing queen, Queen Vashti. King Ahasuerus decides he wants a new queen. And so he sends out for, to see all the maidens and he's gonna pick the most beautiful. And Esther, who happens to be Jewish is chosen to be the new queen and then through a whole sort of comedy of errors and egos, the King's adviser, the evil Haman, sets up a plot to sort of take.(April quacks) Thank you. You're supposed to blot out his name. Every time we hear his name, we're supposed to make noise so we can't hear it. Anyway, So this evil adviser comes up with this plot to have all the Jews killed. And that is Esther's moments. Esther's moment to say to the King,"You know what? I'm Jewish."- She was there for a time such as this.(Tracie laughs)- It was beshert as they say. It was meant to be. So in the end, the King spares all the Jews' lives and said Haman and his co-conspirators kind of get what's coming to them. I guess you should say. And it became, this is like a lot of Jewish stories, right?"They tried to kill us. We survived. Let's eat." But Purim is a little different because it's, that's not all we say. We say, in this one, we say, "They tried to kill us. We survived. Let's do a silly play and get really drunk." Which is a different... It's that sort of the unique thing about Purim which I think is really interesting. In fact, there's one, I think it's, it must be in the Talmud. There's one sort of phrase, saying that on Purim you should drink so much wine that you can't tell the difference between Haman, boo, and Mordecai who is Esther's uncle and the Jewish hero of the story.- Besides. Well, he's one of the heroes- One of the heroes, one of the heroes. Thank you. Yes. Besides Esther, Esther obviously is THE hero but Mordecai has an important supporting role.- Yes, very much so. And all of this story, the source of this story is the Book of Esther, which is what we read from which sort of Tracie was mentioning is the source of the different Purim spiels or Purim plays that come about. I'm remembering some of the tunes as you were telling the story from different Purim spiels of yore, like in my childhood at my synagogue, they did, you know, like a Broadway style one where they took different show tunes and so as you were singing, I was like, King Ahasuerus, standing beside you Anyways, So I had like all these, like songs in my head that were composed by a beloved community member who passed not too long ago, Lydia Owens, and it makes for good segues for me as I'm facilitating different programs. So, you know, and so there's a few different things we could talk about here. One that I recently learned that may be old news for some, and, but it's just a still worth mentioning to me is that Purim is actually quite similar to a number of holidays in other traditions around this time that in different parts of the world, this is the time when things are very dark still and cold. And so midway through the season of cold and transition is a great time to... so separate from the mystical, spiritual, religious elements. Some Jews have analyzed that it also makes sense sort of sociologically and communally that this would be happening at a time often when it's still cold and dark that people engage and many meant to enjoy and silliness, and turning things upside down, and backwards to make light of what can be an exhausting period of quiet and darkness, right? And to bring some levity and light into it and eat hamentashen that, you know, people say are, that it's customary to eat a three pointed cookie with yumminess in the middle. That is supposed to be symbolic of the hat of the person whose name will not be mentioned. Which is oddly like some recent leaders we've had such as the former white house occupant, but, you know, so so yeah. So that's like, so thank you, Tracie for that really great intro. So as I thought about things I could talk about one of the things that I'm not so interested in talking about, now that I'm saying it, is like, but that I've thought about a lot before are just the feelings, some of the feelings of connection that I have. I felt with Esther as I've been in some very prominent Jewish leadership positions in the past. Some of those circles weren't ready for the fullness of my identity. And so a couple of years ago, I viscerally, in a way that I didn't in my childhood but I could viscerally, because often I was like I was more of Vashti's camp. Like I still want to hear, I still want to hear Vashti's story, like Esther is the scab who was sent in like I want to know what's happening with Vashti, you know? Where's she living? What's her life like now she's stood up for herself.- Yeah.- You know , as a young girl, like who was raised as a feminist like I was like, "I want to know that story." But as I was in different leadership positions over the last few years, while Black Lives Matter was really beginning to gain traction. And I had this prominent position and I was in this token role and feeling the need, you know. I was put into this, you know, I was created for a time such as this and certain things need to be said. And so I now connect with, I connect with both. I feel like I've been both Vashti and Esther. I'm curious for folks who are listening regardless of gender... in your life, in certain parts of your life or just in general, or do you more vibrate with Esther's energy of being brought in of being the chosen person and also someone who is welcomed in at a price.- Right.- That she has to hide parts of who she is in order to be welcomed in, or are you someone who's a bit more like Vashti? She was like,"Un-uh, I'm not playing that game and I'm willing to pay the price."- Right. So Vashti, I didn't, in my nutshell, I didn't tell the story, but the King, one night while he was drinking, ordered her to come before him. And it's, it's very unclear to me from the Megillah exactly what it means but the commentators make it clear that they, the King wanted the queen, Queen Vashti to come naked to dance, or somehow perform in the nude for him and his...- Homies?- Courtiers. Homies, right. And she refused, she said, "Not doing it." And so he said, "Well, you're not queen anymore."- "Ah...no." Yeah.- Yeah. There's a, and there's a lot of, yeah, there's a lot of power in that no but it's really interesting that you're putting the, I mean, the text does too but it's really interesting that you're lifting up these two women, right? Who use power in different ways, right? Vashti uses her power to say, no even though she faces the consequences and Esther, you're right. She's chosen, but she's not, she's the chosen one to be the King's consort and then becomes, then becomes the chosen one to save the Jews because of the, because she's in the position to do so.- She was incognito.- Totally, totally. No. And it's really interesting in thinking about some of the conversations that I've been having out loud and in my head about white Jews and whiteness, that's what's coming up for me thinking about Esther, right? Who passed for whatever, you know, non-Jewish, it wasn't whiteness obviously, but the Persian majority did not. She just was a beautiful woman. There was not, there was, the Jewish identity was a hidden one for her. And so that's the parallel that I'm seeing. And it's just, yeah, I'm not sure where to go with it. But it's also really interesting to me because we started here with joy and the fact that that we make these spiels, these plays that are supposed to be funny and we're supposed to really like whoop it up and get drunk is associated with this. Like, so the farce of it on layered on top of the very real, you know, truth with a capital T about power dynamics and about identity politics, and identity, and gender, and all of those things that are alive and real then get layered onto them with these, the farce, which is really, really fascinating to me especially as it sits in constellation with the other Jewish holidays, right? Like that this is the one that we choose to layer on that.- Right?- Farce. Yeah.- Right. Where it's like you could kind of potentially in some ways with other stories also have a similar, like a land full of frogs is kind of funny.- Yeah. And locusts. And I mean, like, you see the sort of inkling of that with some of the Passover traditions of like having the toys or like throwing rice or whatever for the, for the lice but it's not, it is not the same even when you're required to even, being required to drink four cups is not the same as being invited to get so drunk. You can't tell the difference between the bad guy and the good guy. So, and the timing is interesting too. Right before we started recording, I'm going to bring this back up. I was looking at, I love this book, Seasons Of Our Joy by Arthur Waskow. I was introduced to it as an undergrad and I come back to it again and again, but Waskow was looking at why do we do Purim, this farcical one right before Passover? And his answer is really fascinating to me especially for us.- Let's hear it. So he says, "When the original history happened the sublime liberation of Exodus came long before the farce of Purim. But when we finish living that history and begin to learn it, absorb it into our lives, digest it so that we can make a Holy future, then it may be important for us to laugh first. To let the farce come first. For power is funny. And those who hold power are ridiculous. The first stage of liberation is that we learn to laugh at them. But power is also profound, and liberation is also at the root of all the universe. Having learned to laugh, we become ready to seek our freedom seriously. There's a time to laugh. And then there is a time to ask questions." Anyway.- Thank you for reading that because that's the segue perfectly for me that leads into my broader point that I want to make without being a kill joy. And that's the perfect way to do it. So I love this because it's what it's saying. What essentially, to me, part of what he's saying or reading of it could be is that in terms of how things manifest and come into being, the vibration needs to proceed the action and outcomes. That if we want to move in the direction of liberation or we want to achieve an outcome, at times people think that like our happiness comes as a result of things. And the big secret is that you need to find a way to get happy first and not, and have unconditional, have an unconditional, and not all the time. Like we're not going to be happy all the time, but more, but when you can, right? Like we all, like, life's hard and we want to take risks. And those things are scary. And so there's an up-down, but when we go up that it's, instead of it just being flat and risking but that we do have that and that we do access joy, right? Because for me, I'm both happy that it's Adar but the reason I'm happy is because I feel joyous much of the time. And so I'm glad now finally, now that this administration is here, but I'm like we could have been happy this whole time outside of when we're processing trauma. It's like a broader point, right?(April laughs) And like, I know some people are like buckling their seatbelt. They're like, "Oh boy." But, you know, but really, like what might've been possible for us? Like I just, I think I talked about this before but the connection wasn't good, but like two of my elders who have both since passed and whose spirits I still carry with me, my Grandpa Joe, and my Gram, they were two people who went through horribly difficult things. And ultimately, they also still were consistently happy people. And I thought of them a lot. In 2016 after the election and thought like, if my grandfather could survive Jim Crow and if my Gram could be sick at one point to the point where she broke a rib, she was coughing so hard from pneumonia. And still when I would talk to her before and after that, she was primarily in a place of, "I'm so happy. I feel really grateful. I love my life." Right. Like if people can go through these things and she was the daughter of Pennsylvania coal miners like she grew up during the depression and it occurred to me that there's likely nothing that I'm going to go through that's going to be any worse what they went through and if they could find joy in their circumstance authentically. And that doesn't mean when things were hard they faked it or they buffered it. No, like I've seen both of them be sad at times or upset, but like my Grandpa's famous line and according to my mom, he would often change it. I just remember often with me when I remember him saying it when I'd ask him how he was doing, he'd say, "I'm 60, 40." He'd put his hand on his potbelly."I'm 60, 40, I mean. 60% is good. 40%, not so much, but the 60% is good."(April laughs) You know? And apparently, sometimes he would say, "70, 30, you know. It's more good than bad."- I love it.- You know? Like, and, and so for me, like I think I just want to pose the arguably radical question of what if we start whether it's joy or just other high vibrational feelings like peace, contentment, power, calm, you know, what if we didn't have to wait? What if that experience could be less conditional on external circumstances? And how many more circumstances could we start to shift over time if we were able to stay in that place? And as I've heard, and I feel like, I'm sure it's in some Jewish settings too. I've heard it said in some Christian settings when I've done interfaith work, where they talk about being a thermostat versus a thermometer, right? I'm interested in being a thermostat. I'm interested in setting the temperature to joy and, and that being the case until there's something legitimate that shifts that. And then I go through a healing process around that. And then I go back setting the temperature back to joy, as opposed to checking the thermometer based upon, "What month is it? Oh, it's Adar. Now, I'm allowed to be joyous."- Yeah. Yeah. But you know, it's interesting too. The thermostat metaphor, when things, when things happen that are counter to where you've set the thermostat, it just means that the, the HVAC system has to work harder, right? It doesn't, you know, so it, it is harder to then achieve that. But that doesn't mean it's impossible. That's kind of what I was thinking. Like, you may have to like readjust again as you were saying- Re-adjust or like, if a door gets opened or a window breaks, then you need to focus on healing the window. You don't want to overwork. I'm not saying overwork the HVAC system and just spew out all these.- (indistinct)- Yeah. No, no. I'm saying, "Oh wow. There's damage. There's, there's damage. There's been harm. Let's heal it. Let's get a replacement window. Let's find out what the source of that was. Is there some kind of reconciliation? Is there some sort of healing?" Right And then the last piece I want to make sure to say which we should've said earlier is also just acknowledging for me as someone who, a part of my ongoing counter- oppressive, or anti-oppressive learning meaning just actions that are liberatory and moving in ways that encourage and foster justice rather than the ongoing harm without being in direct engagement with, which is why I like, I've recently heard some folks say from the Priestess Institute, a counter-oppressive as opposed to anti-oppressive. And I actually, I like that because it feels a little, it's a little bit more gentle. It's a little bit more spiritually aligned with my orientation toward it. And one of those things is around alcohol. And so I also just wanna name for folks as someone who is excited to be joyous during Purim. And also I live in a predominantly dry country and my partner is Muslim. So he never drinks. I occasionally do but I also just want to name that, you know, I, that addiction runs in my family and that none of, not a single one of our listeners should ever, ever, ever feel pressured in any way to have any alcohol. Our blessings just say fruit of the vine and the Talmud piece does specifically say, like get drunk enough but often people think I'm drunk at times. Not often but at parties and things just because I have fun and I have a free spirit, and it's almost sad to me at times when people think I'm intoxicated because I'm just happy. Like it's not like I'm like, taking off my clothes or doing something. It's just that I'm joyous. And I feel free. And you know, my wish for folks is that first, as I mentioned, that we feel entitled to start to access feelings of joy that we can decide when, if and when we want that. And again, joy, you can replace that with any other desired elevated state of mind, even if it's just peace or calm. And that we get to celebrate in the ways that work for our body and things, and engage in the things that bring us joy like great company and music and fun. And it's perfectly wonderful to have alcohol-free Shabbats, Shabbatot, and Purim, holidays. So, yeah. And I also can feel some of the anger in some of my friends and that's also to say like each person gets to decide so I'm not here to poo-poo, how anyone observes but I just wanted to make sure we make sure the... Ensure that the, our tent of the conversation is broad to include.- Yes, of course. Thank you. Yes.- Yeah.- Did you want to say anything else, Tracie?- I guess I just, everyone is able to find the joy, however, however you get there and that we can maintain it as we move forward, as April says.- Yes.- And if you can't, that's why we're here. You got us. We are here to maintain that joyous justice.(both laugh) As Alicia key says"stay tuned because there's more to see." So happy Adar. Adar Purim, Sameach. May you have a happy, joyous Purim, Purim, and month of Adar and look for reasons to celebrate joy. One last thing.. or to engage in joy... One last thing I would suggest is consider making a list as long as you can. Five to 20 things, maybe more of what things bring you joy. And over the course of this month, try to incorporate as many as you can into your day or your week. And it can be anything from something as extravagant. And although I know in the States because the pandemic that might not be so feasible but as something like horseback riding or could just be enjoying a really good cup of tea or coffee and sitting with someone you love or sitting in silence and relaxing it doesn't have to be expensive, it doesn't have to be ornate.- I love that. I love that. And it doesn't have to be... like nobody else is looking doesn't matter what other people would think of it. Like I have multi-colored dishes and I really love it when they're in a pattern in the, in the cabinet. And it's just a silly thing. But, and like when my husband puts the dishes away when he's home, he doesn't care and they're all, however they just go in and I go in and reorder them. Because when I open the cabinet and it's in a pattern, it makes me happy. So, you know, whatever, whatever it is that works for you, do it.- Whatever. All right. Take care. Much love.- [April] Thanks for tuning in. Our show's theme music was composed by Elliot Hammer. You can find this track and other beats on Instagram at @elliothammer. If this episode resonated with you, please share it and subscribe. To join the conversation, visit jewstalkracialjustice.com where you can send us a question or suggestion, access our show notes and learn more about our team. Take care until next time and stay humble and keep going.